Dr
Ravikirti's pacifying comments are
well taken and I agree students from
general category will pursue their
education with stronger resolve but
the fact is why have a policy that
is so illogical and
pseudo-democratic.
It is unfortunate that we have to
discuss these (read caste related)
issues even after almost 60 years of
Independence and even more
frustrating is the fact that there
are quite a few folks among the
intellectual class supportive of the
ill-devised reservation policy on
caste lines.
With due respect to Mr. Prabhat (see
here), I would request him to
answer some of the basic questions I
have about this whole reservation
saga.
1. He justifies reservation for OBCs.
Why on earth does he rule out some
general category folks living in
rural India and below poverty line
to avail of this benefit? He might
argue that their number is minimal
but disqualifying them defies any
logic. What wrong have they done,
besides their fate of being born in
upper caste family, to see their
brethren from lower caste in the
same village getting the advantage
(and this assumes the benefits of
reservation policy reaches to the
Indian villages).
2. He justifies reservation in
premier educational institutions
like IIMs and IITs on the basis that
folks from lower caste should have
access to state of art institutions
irrespective of merit. Well, why
does he want to limit the
reservation only in education, why
not a fixed quota, say 50% in some
other fields like Indian Cricket
Team, Olympics squad, Bollywood to
name a few. Assuming his logic is
correct, I see no harm in extending
reservation policy even in
aforementioned fields.
One reason that is given in support
of the reservation policy is that
the folks from OBCs etc have been
downgraded and ill treated in the
past. I guess there is some truth
there. But then if that is the case
and we try to employ this somewhat
"vindictive" strategy in other
areas, then we will never progress.
On the other hand should we not try
and look in future from development
perspective and work towards
creating opportunities and ensure
everybody gets a level playing
field. If poor economic condition
acts as a hurdle we should look
towards providing financial help
rather than through reservation
system that has a potential of
creating a huge disharmony among the
masses. - Ravindra Shahi - Apr.
13, 2006
I
have read all that appeared in
PatnaDaily.Com on reservation issue.
The arguments presented by Mr.
Prabhat Sinha (myths
vs. facts) in favour of
reservations were just hilarious. It
really added some humor to this
serious topic!! PatnaDaily.Com could
have easily published it in the Oops
section.
With due respect to him personally,
the way Mr. Prabhat Sinha has
twisted 'myths' to justify his
'facts' is commendable. Who said Mr.
V P Singh has left a vacuum in
politics? There are plenty of
Prabhat Sinha's to step in. In his
arguments I can see a formidable
politician in making.
The article by Mr. Ravikirti and
response by Mr. Ravindra Shahi was
quite good. Mr. Prabhat Sinha can
pick up some more facts (Oops myths
!!) from there.
Seriously, all this talk of
justifying reservations is pure
nonsense, to say the least. If
somebody is economically weak,
support him with money; if somebody
is intellectually weak there should
be provision for him in schools for
extra teachers and extra teaching
hours as it happens in most of the
European countries. If somebody is
mentally retarded, arrange for
special schools for them. Every
effort should be made to make them
independent human beings who can
contribute to the society. By the
same logic if someone is insane send
him to mental asylum. It's as simple
as that.
European countries are dealing with
more aging population. So they are
coming up with more old age homes.
In India are we dealing with
problems of mentally retarded
teenagers or young people who lack
IQ to compete in exams. If yes, then
emphasis should be on opening fully
equipped schools for
handicapped/mentally retarded
persons. Providing reservations in
IITs/IIMS is not a solution.
I have full sympathy for the next
generation of youths who are lacking
academically because of congenital
(by birth) or acquired problems. But
reservation is no solution - it
hasn't worked and it will never
work. Reservation itself declares
that there was a compromise on merit
- there is no argument on that.
If someone is intellectually poor
why are we luring him to study
rocket science? Just because he is
OBC and it's his turn now to go to
space (I assume Mr. Rakesh Sharma
was not an OBC)? He/she can get get
other vocational training. IITS/and
IIMS can be left and should be left
for the best. We can easily open
(and it's already coming up) other
vocational training centres where
second bests can get training. IITS
and IIMS are not the end of life.
We have to acknowledge that in a
group of 20 students someone has to
be best and someone has to be worst
- doesn't matter which caste he
belongs to. That doesn't mean the
worst guy has no right to live on
this earth. But definitely he should
contend with RIT's and other
regional MBA centres - no point in
asking for reservation to climb up
the ladder. - Dr Pankaj Kumar
Mishra, UK - Apr. 13, 2006
I
myself witnessed the situation while
I got good marks and ranked better
than my SC/ST/OBC counterparts in
various entrance examination e.g.
NLSIU, Bangalore; NUJS, Kolkata;
NIFT-UG Design Final Merit List;
CEPT University, Ahmedabad and AIEEE-
Architecture merit list (I missed
SPA, Delhi) and many more.
Finally, I got through many national
level institutions but lost two
golden years of my life.
It's all due to the quota system.
If all "other" students have
guts/talent, why can't they come
through the general quota proving
their ‘talent’? The whole idea of
reservation is really absurt. -
S. Singh (A student from Gopalganj
district in Bihar) - Apr. 14, 2006
The
Prime Minister said, ‘‘Getting
rivals to disagree and turning
debate into a gladiatorial sport may
be entertaining and commercially
rewarding. But does it help society
move forward? Our democracy may be
better off it we can increase the
area of agreement rather than
sharpen disagreements.’’
To quote his exact words: ‘‘Mass
media may give greater expression to
those who are vocal and articulate
but it is the electoral process that
reflects the will of the silent
majority. No democratically elected
Government can ignore the interests
of the silent majority.’’
In a message ostensibly directed at
the media—but aimed, perhaps,
equally at alliance partners and
supporting parties—Singh underlined
the importance of ‘‘discussion’’ as
opposed to ‘‘debate.’’ A discussion,
he said, ‘‘can facilitate a
consensus’’ while a debate
‘‘invariably divides opinion.’’
Having quoted the Prime Minister I
would like to answer the following
a) "Why have a policy that is so
illogical and pseudo-democratic".
Indian history and Indian culture
still sustains the caste system and
religion. Even if the GDP of India
will be above 10% ,these things will
not change but people will become
more and more liberal in thoughts
.Economy and politic go hand in
hand, caste system may get replaced
by class -Rich and Poor and doing OK
Class or Elite and non Elite ,but
the perspective remains the same .
After Independence, 22% quota was
reserved for SC/ST and this was very
logical thing to do because terms
like untouchable and other varied
forms of the social injustice
existed in our country at that time
.The whole idea to give them
reservation was to make them
economically developed so that they
can join the mainstream. Democracy
means every people should get a
chance to put forward his thoughts
and convictions. We fought for
independence because they use to say
“Indians and Dogs are not allowed “.
Stating the reservation percentage
is well tested implementation and it
is part of all kind of democracy
–developed, developing and
undeveloped.
Institute like IIT and IIM have till
date produced Engineers and Managers
who work for other countries because
our country can not afford to pay
them handsome salary and luxurious
life. It is high time to bring these
institutions into our social
development process. If you have
merit and dedication no body can
stop you from shining. Bill Gate is
college drop out. Narayan Murthy is
not an IIT'Ian. People join these
institutes to become hero from zero
.If these institutes are constrained
to just make hero from the persons
who are already capable of becoming
a hero then these institutes should
not be aided by Indian government.
Even if these institutes are run
under private administration then
also they should participate in
uplifting the social system.
Education is all about uplifting the
society and if OBC are not capable
of reaching these institutes then
government should pave a way for
them.
b) “Why not a fixed quota, say 50%
in some other fields like Indian
Cricket Team, Olympics squad,
Bollywood to name a few. Assuming
his logic is correct; I see no harm
in extending reservation policy even
in aforementioned fields.”
Quota system in undocumented form is
already there in Indian Cricket
Team, Olympics squad, Bollywood. Jr.
AB is one of such example. He got 20
flops opportunity to prove his
mettle. Rohan Gavaskar is playing
from Calcutta because of this quota
system only. We should not forget
Ganguly vs. Chapel episode. In
Bollywood, those who could not avail
this quota system have become victim
of casting couch. Quota system in
undocumented form was always there
in Indian Society and it still
exists.
The objective of any quota system is
make opportunity available to less
deserving and democracy should
always favor downtrodden.
c) "I was sure that my generation
was going to break the shackles of
caste and lay the foundations of a
strong and united India. But alas,
that one evening! We all became
aware of our caste identities.
Overnight we all got interested in
each other's caste. Mr. V P Singh
had pushed the Indian society
several decades back into the past."
We do not choose our caste, race,
religion. Since we are educated we
know these things does not matter
anymore. People like Arjun Singh or
VP Singh are not capable of
convincing any educated person to
make a wrong choice.
The socio–economic condition of
present India is such that it does
not have sufficient budget to make
thousands IITs or invest billion to
uplift the mass so that all should
be at the same platform to take off.
When 80% of the Indian people
belongs to backward castes and of
which 80% are poor, the choice for
Indian government are limited. -
Narayan Prasad - Apr. 14, 2006
Dear Mr. Narayan Prasad,
Thanks for enlightening us on the
importance of “discussion” as
compared to “debate”. But I guess a
debate does have an important role
to play to arrive at correct
decisions.
Well, every person has a right to
choose one's profession and you
cannot stop a barber's son to get
inspired by his father's profession
and choose that as a livelihood. The
same goes for a tailor's son,
mechanic's son etc and an actor's
son has every right to do so as
well. In the case of AB launching
his son, please remember it is
either his or the producer's money
that is at stake and is not
unethical if they want to spend it
by making a wrong investment. It may
not be the most ideal thing but I
don't see any injustice being meted
out to anybody else because they are
not tampering with the government
resources.
I don’t understand why you should
bring Ganguly vs Chappel episode in
this discussion.
“Casting Couches” is a scandal and
there is no policy or law supporting
this. Please don’t try to prove your
point by citing these examples. On a
lighter note, I am sure actors like
Pankaj Kapoor, Om Puri etc were not
beneficiaries of any quota system,
you have mentioned, when they were
struggling to make a mark in the
film industry. So did they also have
to be victims of the casting couch
syndrome or anything like that to
make it big in filmdom?
I am not sure if Rohan Gavaskar got
any benefits because of inheriting
the surname from his father. Let us,
for argument sake, accept there is
some truth behind your findings. But
did we ever say this is acceptable
and should be practiced? Again, you
cannot justify the reservation
policy by coming up with such pale
analogies and reasoning. Mistakes
are bound to be committed in
implementation of policies but
trying to prevent wrong policies
from being implemented is what we
are discussing.
People leaving their country or
motherland and going for greener
pastures is not limited to IITs and
IIMs. And going by your logic, will
you ridicule the students who after
graduating from Bihar, leave their
state and work in other parts of the
country? Will you also ridicule all
the laborers who go to Punjab, Delhi
to earn a livelihood? If you create
country based boundaries then state
based boundary is just an extension.
I see a huge contradiction in your
logic.
Frankly speaking I didn’t understand
what you actually wanted to convey
by citing the examples of Narayan
Murthy and Bill Gates and also the
significance of “Hero from Zero” or
“Zero from Hero” or whatever. Are
you trying to say that IITs and IIMs
should admit Zeros (I assume
students without any merit) and
convert them into Heroes (Einsteins
and Newtons)? WOW, that is something
I am sure no body will oppose. Kudos
for coming up with such a great
great suggestion that none of us
have thought about. Hope it happens
pretty quick. - Ravindra Shahi -
Apr. 14, 2006
If
the majority of the Indian poor
belong to the backward castes, they
would have still be benefited if
reservations were based on economic
criteria. This would do away with
the need for a candidate to declare
his caste. But unfortunately,
reservation based on economic
criteria does not have the same
vote-bank potential as caste based
reservations. - Dr Ravikirti
- Apr. 14, 2006
Debate or discussion - what's the
point of having it when you know
which party is going to come out
stronger? Prime Minister Manmohan
Singh, when he says, "Our democracy
may be better off if we can increase
the area of agreement rather than
sharpen disagreements," didn't he
mean that only the meritorious upper
caste people should agree to
everything that is being shoved down
their throat? You know quite well
that the government will do what it
wants to do to get votes -
discussion or not! Does anyone has
any doubt that this 49% reservation
in IIT/IIMs will not be implemented?
And we haven't even come close to
the end of it. Next election it will
go up to 65% and then 80% and then
100% because that's the only way to
emancipate these people with
'oh-my-life-had-been-so-difficult-because-of-the-upper-caste-people'
syndrome.
"When 80% of the Indian people
belongs to backward castes and of
which 80% are poor...," Really? I
didn't know Lalu, Rabri, Paswan and
Shyam Rajak were poor. Thanks for
the info. And I suppose the 20%
forward castes are all rich and
affluent; none of them is poor! -
Anil Kumar - Apr, 15, 2006 |
