Mr Som has made some great points. When I was in IIT, even within the IITs, I found that the brightest students were not the ones who scored the best marks in the entrance exams. We don't find a single IIT'ian who has not won a Nobel prize whereas in UK/US we find even the state universities have Nobel prize winning professors, this is a red flag. Recently it was found that an extremely large number of the IIT'ians were coming from coaching institutes run in a small town called Kota in Rajasthan. This raised serious concerns regarding the quality of the entrance exams and even the IIT directors had a meeting to find out what was happening. I don't know what came of the meeting but if some PD readers are up to date with this then please let us know.

Creativity can be taught from an early age. Anyone who sends his children to a primary school in UK/US can attest to this fact. The school system here uses games, fun activities, crafts, arts, live projects, field trips, excursions, writing assignments, discussions, debates, student presentations and so on and so forth to nurture creativity. The highest marks are allocated for creative activities. Creativity is not merely inherited otherwise all the top scientists will only have scientist kids. Creativity does not lasts forever and if not nurtured properly right from a young age, it dies. - Rajesh Sahu, Manchester, UK


"I have a message for the world, which I will deliver without fear and care for the future. To the reformers I will point out that I am a greater reformer than any one of them. They want to reform only little bits. I want root-and-branch reform." - Swami Vivekananda

Wait 50-100 years more ,things will change. The natural process of social and scientific developments will again take us back to era of Aryabhatta. The older I grow, the better I seem to think of India and such other time-honored institutions of India. There was a time when I used to think that many of them were useless and worthless, but the older I grow, the more I seem to feel a difference in cursing any one of them, for each one of them is the embodiment of the experience of centuries.

I tell the world first form a stable society like ours and then take me to moon with your innovative ideas of science and technology. Whatever they are telling me now I have already heard in the stories of Ramayana and Mahabharata .

Many texts speak of the relativity of time and space---abstract concepts that developed in the scientific context just a hundred years ago. The Puranas speak of countless universes, time flowing at different rates for different observers and so on.

The Mahabharata speaks of an embryo being divided into one hundred parts each becoming, after maturation in a separate pot, a healthy baby; this is how the Kaurava brothers are born. There is also mention of an embryo, conceived in one womb, being transferred to the womb of another woman from where it is born; the transferred embryo is Balarama and this is how he is a brother to Krishna although he was born to Rohini and not to Devaki. There is an ancient mention of space travellers wearing airtight suits in the epic Mahabharata which may be classified as an early form of science fiction.

Universes defined recursively are described in the famous episode of Indra and the ants in Brahmavaivarta Purana. Here Vishnu, in the guise of a boy, explains to Indra that the ants he sees walking on the ground have all been Indras in their own solar systems in different times! These flights of imagination are to be traced to more than a straightforward generalization of the motions of the planets into a cyclic universe. They must be viewed in the background of an amazingly sophisticated tradition of cognitive and analytical thought.

Our rich scientific achievements are not well documented. For example; the evolution of Indian medicine is not as well documented as that of Indian mathematics. Neither do we understand well the manner in which the philosophical basis underlying Indian science evolved. But one thing of which I am very clear about is India will regain it super status say for example "AIDS is due to western living concept". People are going to one life partner concept as mentioned in our Ramayan . Therefore, I am very hopeful our education system will revolve and reinvent itself. - Narayan Prasad - Apr. 15, 2006

I felt like laughing my guts out when I read this write-up from my fellow reader. I am extremely disappointed. The facts presented here gives me an impression that author has spent most of his life here in US (read some of his previous articles which reeks of US sycophancy) or has taken a ignorant swipe thinking most of his fellow readers will be sitting ducks with no self pride. For your kind information the premier engineering institutes including but not limited to IITs and RECs boast of the most intelligent brains of the country. Such shallow depictions on a national forum with utter disregard for facts and figures is unpardonable and leaves our national institutions in very poor light. IIT entrance exams cannot be cleared just on pure "parrotism". It is not your class 10 board exams where you have those exam cram questions that you mug up and get straight As. So Mr Vishwakarma get your facts right. IIT is not some tota maina ki kahani as you have bluntly put it. And just incase you didn’t know most of the top IITians and RECians are already stationed at the premier institutes in US. Most of the graduate and post-graduate programs are over stacked with Asians mostly Chinese and Indians. They are on full scholarship enrolled in some of the top-notch research carried out in the country. There are many I can list but time and space is always a consideration. But anyways here is one for the record - Having worked on Param 10000 Supercomputers myself at the CDAC National Supercomputing facility in Pune, I kept myself abreast with the supercomputing world and recently a breakout news made me really proud. What does it take to make the world's fourth fastest supercomputer at a cost of 5 million USD (the cheapest available today). It takes an Indian by the name Srinivas Varadarajan (an ex-REC'ian from Warangal who came to US in 1994) research professor at Virginia Tech heading a crew which lived on pizzas and football tickets on a 18 hour shift for 1 month and 1100 Apple Macintosh machines. There are many more budding Vadarajans waiting in the wings in India's top engineering and medical institutes. What they lack is a sound technological fabric on their home soil. A fortiori they flee for greener pastures.

I have done my masters in Computer Science from a respectable institution in US with straight As in all my courses and believe it or not the level of any of the exams here were nowhere close to the IIT entrance I took 12 years ago. People are mostly in awe of IITs and IIMs because the foundation that is laid out is extremely solid. Parrots will quit the exam hall after reading the first question on the entrance.

However I do agree partly with you on the research programs that are being pursued in IITs and other premier institutions. It has not inspired much confidence in breakthrough technological advancements but if you see Indians doing well in US it is because of the conducive and productive environment one is bred in to showcase their vast talents. The example above of Varadarajan is one such. Do you know he flew from Tata Unisys after working there for a day because of bond enforcements.

As for your visionary statements that deride Indians who come here on H1B and your extension of that derision by comparing them with the CEOs the CIOs and the CFOs, I find it superfluous and your logic over flawed. H1Bs are on visitor's program and have to spend considerable time coming on Green Card and eventually citizenship. How do you expect them to compete with Americans on their own soil, being at such a disadvantage? I have friends who have been here for quite some time doing very well for themselves and holding very respectable positions.

I think you are still mired in the lure of USA. Wake Up Mr Som because US is no longer perceived as the land of opportunities. The reverse brain drain in recent times suggests that. Do some basic groundwork and your falsification or ignorance will be exposed. Scout out the list of PhD programs in top-notch institutes here and count out the Indians enrolled in such programs, professors as well as students. I agree US has earned a name for itself in technological advancements but please be mindful of the fact that part of the credit goes to the countless engineers like us who form their workforce. We cannot be in top management positions because the law of the jungle does not permits us to. Please don’t expect us to become Mike Eskews or Steve Balmers overnight. We are happy being Varadarajans.

Once again get your facts right else your articles will become a laughing stock for many. Proud to be an Indian! - Siddharth Verma - Apr. 15, 2006

Mr. Siddharth Verma has not offered a single logical rebuttal of the article except for some blind and fake patriotic ranting. He has proven the authors point of Indians being satisfied and proud in little technician's achievements. US needs Indian and Chinese technicians since the American kids are mostly busy trying to sleep with as many girls as possible. Being good in studies is considered as 'geeky' in US whereas being popular with the girls is the ultimate prize. But eventually some Americans grow out of this and do quality research. If you want to know how the Americans really think about Indians checkout the Asok character in the Dilbert comic strip. Asok constantly rants about being from a top notch Indian school but is fooled and used by anybody and everybody without getting any reward for his efforts. Many Indians propagate the myth that 30% of NASA engineers are Indians, 50% of Microsoft employees are Indians but these are all exaggerated figures. You are right Mr Vishwakarma bringing about a paradigm shift is difficult. Indians need to start getting more ambitious.

P.S: I did my B.Tech from BITS, Pilani. Mr. Vishwakarma I would have been happy if you would have included BITS in the list of good Indian institutes too, just kidding! - Rajendra Kumar - Apr. 15, 2006

Mr. Rajendra Kumar,

You response and generalization of all the Indian, Chinese and American students is nothing but ludicrous bordering on being outright offensive. I wonder how could you categorize all the mind blowing research work done by these very fine Indian and Chinese scientists, technocrats as being a technicians work. I spent couple of years doing PhD work at one of the best universities in the world with some of best Indian professors in biotechnology, proteomics and I was amazed by their inventiveness, capabilities and sheer talent. This is just a few that I was closely involved in the research work. I could find such amazing researchers in all these conferences that I happened to attend during the thesis work. If you want some cold facts, check out the DOE, NSF website and find out that every year invariably there are couple of Asian professors who are awarded funding, support and EARLY CAREER awards. Now that is a no mean achievement if you have happened to spend some time in research world. How could you call all these very fine researchers a technician ? Do you even realise the value of their research? All scientific and technological research is not done in disruptive or iPod like manner that you can change the world in just one brilliant piece of innovation. Research is done in incremental manner and each Nobel prize is a work of decades of research, where the person gets the award really stands on the shoulder of so many giants in the field who have done years of research. I am really amazed by your boldness here and would urge you not to criticize something that you do not understand or refuse to understand.

I find your categorization of all American boys as simply skirt chasers similarly offensive. What are you talking about is nothing but a high school mentality of all the kids in the world, be it India, America or Africa. Did you forget the DPS episode in India ? Will you take that as indicators of all the kids in India ? Did you forget you school and college days so early ? I have studied with some of these very fine American kids who are equally smart and intelligent in every way. I wonder if you live in a bubble or what that you do not see all these people ?

Last but not least, being an IIT'ian myself and a hardcore Dilbert fan, I don't find the Asok character offensive or cheap portrayal in any way. It is just a satirical and funny way to portray the ever growing, omnipresent Indian techies in all the field. Sometimes, its good to not take ourselves too seriously and try to see the humor.

Now, coming to the topic here I would thank Siddharth for writing a very honest summation here. Obviously Mr. Rajendra Kumar fails to see the importance of amazing research work by ppl like Mr Vardarajan. Or the Indian professor whose idea led to Google News application in the Google homepage. In spite of all these visa, immigration challenges, cultural barriers, Asian communities are contributing positively in the US society here in so many ways and I am sure one day you would find Indian CEOs, CFOs too in all the field. Personally, I believe that if I do not become a CEO in future, it reflects more on my talent, business acumen than anything else. I believe that American dream is still alive and full of opportunities. We should be more focusing on doubling our efforts than looking at the negatives that may or may not be there. - Ravindra Kumar, USA - Apr. 16, 2006

Rajendra Kumar, your comments show the hollowness of your knowledge. I don't know why PD even bothers to put comments like yours and some others who frequent this web site except maybe to put you in the public court. - Vikas Agrawal, USA - Apr. 16, 2006

I agree with the fact that rote learning has reduced creativity of general Indian students. But even more responsible are exams like JEE and CAT, for which students give away most valuable periods of life to coaching.

Nearly 30 years back when I went to IIT situation was not so bad since there was still chance of students being able to compete in JEE etc without coaching institutes. Today it seems almost an impossible task.

However, writing such articles and discussing it does not change the situation a single bit. I support an organization active in Patna to make this change called - "Association for Promotion of Creative Learning (APCL)", which also runs a "School of Creative Learning" in rural Patna. You can visit its website "www.creativelearningpatna.org" and if you do happen to be in Patna sometime, you can go and see for yourself their activities in changing "Chalk and Talk" method of learning.

May be by creating more such organization or supporting such organizations, we may create more lateral thinking brain in India and Bihar and improve creativity. Today many companies are shifting their design centres to India and their success will depend partly on how we can develop the mind of young Indians effectively. - Prof. Prabhat Ranjan, Professor, Ph.D. (UC Berkeley) - Apr. 16, 2006

Mr Rajendra Kumar,

My reply to the original article has its own share of logical counterarguments. If you cannot see it then its not my problem.

Mr Som has wrongly depicted IITs and other engineering institutes and bluntly assaulted the credibility of these engineering colleges. Rote based learning is not a part of any of these premier engineering institutes as my fellow colleague Mr Ravindra opined. I am sure you will agree with me if you are a BITS Pilani graduate.

I have friends all over UK and US at the top institutions who are involved in research areas like nano technology, stochastic optimization techniques for AI, space exploration, genetic science and other IT based development projects. So to throw Indians in such poor light on advanced research is not acceptable. Run through voluminous piles of of IEEE, AICHE, APS, ACS, Science journals and you will see what kind of contributions they have delivered. I was involved in some research work at CDAC Pune in collaboration with National Chemical Labs, Pune working on optimization of bio-molecular protein structures using Artificial Intelligence techniques on PARAM workstations. The research did find a meritorious publication and model lease-out to top American research firm in US. You wanted BITS Pilani mentioned because you feel proud to be BTECH graduate from there. What makes you think that research carried out by Varadarajan is not a breakthrough one and something to feel proud of. What makes you think raving about his achievements reeks of patriotic ranting? May be you are not aware of the kind of leverage it adds to the supercomputing arsenal. I picked this just to prove a point. There are so many examples I can give you. It just struck me a news from couple of years ago two Indian kids both aged 14 were picked by NASA for their Mars Exploration Rover Mission at the Jet Propulsion Labs in Pasadena CA. The competition lasted six months trying to tap child prodigies with creativity and imagination. I can give you scores of other examples. Indians don't get recognition because of their intrinsic low profile they maintain.

Even your rationale on Noble Prize has not been rightly judged because you are not aware of the ground realities. Do you know there have been several instances where a deserving Indian did not get recognition for his work and someone who had started later bagged the Nobel Prize. I quote it from none other than the recipient himself by the name Amartya Sen who was speaking to R Mashelkar, Director CSIR (ex Director NCL), just before he won it in 1998 for Economics. This is what he said - "do you know Dr Mashelkar, you have to be ten times as good to win the Nobel Prize, if you are an Indian!". Some of the work for which Glauber has been winning Nobel Prizes on Quantum Theory of Optical Coherence has already been done by ECG Sudarshan, an Indian national in US. And look at this amazing stats - Over 100 yrs there have been 776 Nobel Prizes given out. In the field of science only 3 have gone to a developing nation. One is your very own CV Raman. If you are intelligent you can figure out why. I can list scores of other names who have been victims of their own color and nationality.

As for Indians working on surround technologies and not at the helm of decision making it is because you will rarely weave and work your way up to a top management position in a foreign country. You should be happy that you are at least allowed to come here and avail the resources that you can. Most of the Indians whom I personally know either opened their own startup firm here in States or did so after going back. Indians barrage US shores in large numbers so you cannot expect everyone to be a top research scientist. You will see IT engineers and doctors doing very well for themselves. In a foreign country you don't get a level playing field. I can give you scores of examples where a deserving Indian will be ignored for a not so deserving American on grounds of color and race. I agree there are lot many bright Americans too but they are more ensconced on the top managerial positions. Having personally worked at positions where I had to constantly interact with the VPs and top decision makers I know one thing for sure, credibility of an Indian is never doubted. Trust me they take your surmises and assessments very seriously. Hardly there has been an instance in my own case where something that I suggested to the top management was not included in the business model. Indians are doing very well for themselves. The average household income of an Indian American is much more than the national US income.

What makes you think IT development or medical profession does not need intelligence. Recently one of my friends who is Asst Vice President, IT at Bank of New York developed an extremely niche software that he sold to a top leading business firm in US with exclusive copyrights. Indians have talents/creativity/intelligence in abundance, what we lack is a breeding ground. India does not provide it because the government policies dont encourage advanced research funding to ISRO, BARC, ISc, CDAC, NCL etc etc. And so the exodus.

I do agree with the author on parrotism as a concern in elementary and high school education where learning by rote is quite pervading. That is what needs to be changed. But to hold IITs, BITS and RECs in same light is a bit too far fetched. I am a big lobbyist when it comes to "learning by discovery" or "Out of the box thinking" myself but it will take time before nation-wide educational reforms take center stage.

Asok's character in a Dilbert comic strip is a brainchild of a cartoonist. It does not necessarily overlay the sentiments of million other Americans. - Siddhartha Verma - Apr. 16, 2006

Somji, some rote learning has to be done in school level anywhere on this planet. At school level, subjects like Biology, Zoology, Sanskrit, English, Hindi and some portion of Chemistry etc. Do require some amount of rote learning which can not be avoided. I personally do not think rote learning goes beyond school level in India. If you have studied at good educational institutions, you are certainly not a parrot.

As to why Indians do not land Nobel Prizes, Shri. Siddhartha Verma has rightly pointed out that it is not which bird you are but the color of your feathers that becomes an important consideration. There are very smart dark colored birds. While we all acknowledge their smartness but, in denial, some of us call them dumb parrots and refuse to glorify them. In the larger interest, the Americans have gone beyond that point. Though they too refuse to glorify them, they have a fairly large collection of these smart birds. They use their intelligence but they do not want to hang the cages in the drawing room. That place is for birds with brighter feathers. - Rajesh Chaubey - Apr. 16, 2006

Dear Sirs,

Please do not lose your cool , lets have a healthy debate rather than an ugly argument which would lead to nothing.

Please do not get your egos so flattened as to forget the sanctity of this forum, I understand that many great writers who have superior command on the language visit and write on this forum but that does not entitle them to write and post whatever pleases them.. I hope that you are getting the feelers???

I have always seen that whenever there is a comment posted on a particular topic and it does not pleases a reader he goes on a verbal duel rampaging and ranting about what is right and what is wrong but never coming to the point.

Mr. Rajendra has written very correctly and if few IIT'ians feel embarrassed then it is their choice.

Yes we Indians are same like ASOK people use us and make us feel intelligent and we then argue and debate with our own fellowmen? this is simply ridiculous and high time that we Indians take on the world in our own style.

We are the suckers and always at receiving end, I hope very IIT'ian knows how much government spends in creating an engineer it is roughly Rs. 1 Crore or USD 230,000 but how much fees one pays, peanuts!!!

Now the fellow IIT'ians getting trained get to the USA where they are used by the Americans and they feel elated to make fast bucks.

Has any American company sponsored any IIT grad? it is our own resources that has gone in to educate a individual who works for the foreigners.

IIT'ians or any top notch guy or any scientist does not have a moral right to conquest his case when some one writes something about them and if they do so then they are the worst lost of hypocrites in this world.

It pains to see these people fighting with their brethren and thinking themselves to be super intelligent.

We are an incomplete country and will remain so if we just spend our funds creating engineers who desert their country and make other country successful, do research for other companies who earn a fortune from our own country in terms of services and supplies.

Sorry!! last but not the least , please remain wherever you are there is no remorse but at least let the people say what is in their mind. - Sanjay Gupta - Apr. 16, 2006

Dear Mr. Gupta

It's very easy for you to lecture someone and ask them not to get upset while you and your friends go on on an open forum like this and openly belittle IIT'ians. And if we (the IIT'ians and ex-IIT'ians) defend ourselves, we are labeled as hypocrites.

Please spare us the lectures. This is a clear case of sour grapes for people like you, Mr. Vishwakarma, Mr. Prasad, and Mr. Rajendra Kumar who obviously failed to get themselves in the IITs and now hold a lifelong grudge against all those who made it into it despite tough competitions. What do you think IIT is? Ganesh Pathshala of Patna? Have you ever been a student of IIT? If not, then quit making accusations about something you don't have a clue about.

There is an old saying: "if you don't have anything better to say about someone, don't say anything at all." You and your buddies will do yourselves a big favor if you paid attention to it.

Don't expect us to take your abuse lying down. If you insult us, expect to hear from us too. There is nothing hypocritical about it. You will do the same if someone hurled abuses on you.

Last time I checked on this forum, you are based in Thailand. If we are slave labors in the USA, what are you in Thailand, its king? And if you don't understand the humor in a cartoon character perhaps it's not for people like you. Don't tell me you don't stereotype Americans, French, Chinese, Blacks, Sardarjis and so on and so forth. I assume you have never heard or repeated a Sardarji joke in your life. - Vikas Agrawal, USA - Apr. 17, 2006

Dear Mister Vikas Agarwal,

I do not understand one thing that why have you guys taken everything personally and are now sending comments with venom.

Firstly what is true cannot be hidden under the garb of falsehood and ignorance and whatever I have written I stand by it, I do not know any of the other writers whose names you have mentioned and have never ever been in touch with them , this is the only medium through which we have interacted.

Getting into IIT was never my dream therefore I went into Humanities stream so getting jealous of your achievements and cursing you is not my forte so kindly do not just read the electric part of my comment but also the humane part.

I am in Thailand working for an Indian group , I got a chance to to work in the USA but somehow I did not opt for the same due to the same fact that I did not want to work for a company who did not serve any interest of my nation and the salary was very good may be not in 6 figures but quite handsome.

It also pains me to think that why have you been so critical of my comments , I know that I have displeased the IIT'ians but today or tomorrow they will also realise what I mean and I have no regrets for having written the stark truth.

Lastly , if you again feel that I have written something derogatory and to defame some people then I profusely apologise for it. - Sanjay Gupta - Apr. 17, 2006

Dr. Prabhat Ranjan, thank you for providing the link to the creative learning institute. I am so happy to see that you are walking the talk. The people in the surrounding area are blessed and lucky to have such a fine school in their neighborhood. I have done research in one of the research institutes I have mentioned AND I have done my education at one of the educational institutes mentioned in the original article AND I have been an H1B visa holder. It's shameful that people lack the maturity and character to do valid self-criticism and use rational arguments but instead rely on personal attacks. What I find truly amazing is that whenever someone asks a single question about a certain institute, people from that institute act like religious fanatics. May be we should all stop condemning fanatics since we are all blind fanatics but have our own holy cows. It's saddening that years of collage haven't opened some peoples mind, man are they in the deepest slumber or what! Passing the JEE exam is the biggest event in these peoples lives instead of being a step in doing something big. In fact the bigger event could have been the 4 years in the institute itself or better still it could have been creating jobs for say 100 families or even better, starting something like the creative learning institute in their own region/state.

BTW, Mr. Rajendra Kumar BITS is a good institute and I also believe that it's not just the institute where one studies that matter but the individual matters too. I remember a friend of mine who used to say, "I will never use my college's tag because the institution does not define my identity but my actions and creativity do". My own personal experience on this has been that the best of the best don't drop the name of their institute every now and then as much as a mediocre person does. - Som Vishwakarma, USA - Apr. 18, 2006

When we talk of "the biggest curse" on a country, it implicitly means accepting the country to be a cursed one. One may argue that to accept having a disease is the first step towards its remedy. But when someone describes a pustule to be a malignant tumor then it appears that the disease is probably psychological. And if it happens to be one's own country/body, it needs serious attention.

It was good to see this issue figuring up here, but the article was written with vengeance. It had nothing to do with the research environment or creativity. It was just to malign the students studied from the top Indian institutes, to convey that those talking of merit are actually no better than a parrot. What can we do with a parrot, after all? Well, a computer with no artificial intelligence is also like a parrot. A human being is supposed to have some intelligence over it. One should know the ways in which a talent can be utilized.

Some great scientists were academically poor. Does that prove that students who are poor in studies are potentially the "Nobel prize winner scientists"? If so, I think we have too much of creativity everywhere. This logic is like saying, "Chewing khaini makes me feel like Dr Rajendra Prasad!"

Why the discussion on creativity was limited to the field of science and technology? And why to compare it with US where most of commodities are not "Made in America"?

Not having sophisticated weapons was "one of the” reasons and not the "only or even prime" reason for Indians losing wars in history.

The article talks about the false pride many of Indians have about their smartness over Americans. And then the author talks of American's smartness over Indians. Both ideologies are fundamentally wrong. Smartness has nothing to do with one's origin. Again, being smart and being creative are two different things. The article goes further to prove the value of a scientist over a technician. This is the same article which is supposed to talk of creativity. Why can't a technician be creative? Must one get a Nobel Prize to prove his creativity? Has Raghav Mahto invented a new technology, proposed a new theory of communication?

There are many things about the article which can be argued. But that will be futile. I wish someone would have written an article really on "Promoting Creativity" and would have discussed the solution as well. - Kumod Jha - Apr. 18, 2006

Some of the ranting here reminds me of Asok! Don't underestimate the power of the American media in the peoples life. The American media in general reflects the American public opinion otherwise they go out of business. However unfortunate you may find this but most of the Americans look at the Indian grocery shop owners from the prospective of the Apu character (from the Simpsons) and the Indian techie from the prospective of the Asok character (from Dilbert). Most Americans don't even know that there is a country called India but they know everything about Apu and Asok. I did not join IIT because my JEE rank offered me the Mechanical Engg branch while at BITS I got my favorite Computer Science branch. I am glad that I made the right choice! I feel good that at BITS I paid for my education with my own money and did not use the taxpayer’s money (in India we call it government's money and think of it as a nagar vadhu whom anybody and everybody can enjoy for free). I am sorry to burst certain peoples bubble but the truth will prevail whether I say it or not.
Rajendra Kumar - Apr. 18, 2006

There are people here on this board who, I think, love to throw controversial, mostly baseless, statements just to stir things up. Then they sit quietly and watch how we Indians fight among ourselves while they have fun.

This topic was meant to shake things up and have some cheap thrills while others argue and fight. If the original author is so averse to IITs and IIT'ians then perhaps he needs to keep it within himself or discuss it with his H1B buddies at a local Indian dosa-shop who will agree with him no matter how ridiculous his statements are.

Whether you like it or not - IIT is one thing that is going in favor of India. Deal with it. Just because some of you have negative opinions about IITs doesn't mean others can't have their opinions in favor of IITs/IIMs etc or doesn't mean IIT is a bad institute. If you don't want people to respond to your tirade and baseless innuendoes, don't write it. You don't have to get upset when someone tries to defend himself. And then you people have the nerve to quickly don the 'chaadar' of "Oh I am much more enlightened than you mere mortals - you won't understand it today but maybe if you grow up enough you will understand it one day!! I am much more liberated and open-minded than you are and that's why I see things that you idiots can't see."

Talk about conceit and ego!

How would all of you anti-IIT guys react if some of us made equally idiotic statements like all of you passed your exams by cheating and got high-paying jobs by using personal influences? Don't you have a right to defend yourself? Or defending oneself is not part of 'being liberated and open-minded?' You form an opinion (yes, they are only your personal opinions, not facts) about something because certain things happened in your past and now you preach it as a gospel as if you have conducted a scientific research on the subject and have data to prove it. There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion - no matter how negative it is - but to condemn those who don't agree with you uncovers your mask of pseudo-intellectualism.

I don't think the idea behind this article was to bring something good in Indian education system - the idea was to bash IIT'ians for personal reasons - pure and simple case of envy and ill-will.

To Mr. Gupta, no apology needed. It's your opinion and you are free to have one just like I and millions of others have the right to disagree with you, Mr. Vishwakarma, Rajendra Kumar and others. You don't like IIT'ians - that's different and that's your personal opinion that you are quite entitled to but to expect that some people will not get upset with your remarks and not react angrily is being naive, if not stupid, to say the least.

If IIT was so bad, why millions of Biharis continue to demand for it in Bihar?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you! - Vikas Agrawal, USA - Apr. 18, 2006

Kumodji, I am extremely happy to finally see you breaking your maun vrat. We have missed your smart alec comments and articles all these days. We hope to see your second innings go a long distance.

It needed a Kumod Jha to defuse the wired bombs that were on auto trigger mode. I guess his reply pretty much sums up the sentiments of most people who contributed to this article. - Siddharth Verma - Apr. 18, 2006

Reading between lines and not focusing on actual message seems like become habit of many PatnaDaily readers.

I have read three time this article by Mr Som ji. He used IIT word three times and 2 times with other institutes like REC etc. How is this become become anti-IIT? Just can't believe this is conclusion of so called intelligent IIT'ians.

One thing apparently have become very clear that IIT'ian don't like to hear anything bad about IIT and want to consider that they are better than all non IIT'ians just because some day they cleared IIT-JEE entrance.

Well, to all IIT'ians who replied to this article I want to tell all of you that whatever job in whatever position you are doing now is done by non-IIT'ians and some time by private engineering graduate also. If you believe you are great then you will have to do something great (which I think 200 or so IIT'ians have done).

If you are doing mundane Java programming job after your "prestigious" degree, your intelligence is at par with another programmer who did his degree from a donation based college. Brutal reality but that is fact. Out of 2000 odd engineers every year 50-100 may be doing great job remaining 1900 hundred is doing just another mundane job but keep bragging of their IIT degree 24/7/365.

IIT'ians contribution is far less for India than Government actually spend is another bitter but true fact and you will have to digest that also.

I have yet to see a job in USA where they mentioned that they need or prefer "IIT'ian". - Kaushal Kumar - Apr. 18, 2006

As suspected, this was an all-out anti-IIT debate.

For your information Kaushal Jee, all of your rants and whining about IIT (this WAS an anti-IIT article, trying to dance around the subject doesn't change a thing) simply exposes you for what you are - an IIT-hater. No matter how you disguise your hatred, it shows up. It seems like you and your H1B pals were dying to get it out of your chest. Well, now that you have said it, does it make you feel any better?

What's that old saying... Haathi chale bazaar...??? By the way, there were IIT'ians around the globe way before Java and other programming languages became the household word in India.

You H1B people can't think beyond Java programming, can you? Shows how much you have to learn and grow.

"I want to tell all of you that whatever job in whatever position you are doing now is done by non-IIT'ians and some time by private engineering graduate also."

"If you are doing mundane Java programming job after your "prestigious" degree, your intelligence is at par with another programmer who did his degree from a donation based college."

"IIT'ians contribution is far less for India than Government actually spend is another bitter but true fact"

"I have yet to see a job in USA where they mentioned that they need or prefer "IIT'ian"."

No Kaushal ji, this is not IIT-bashing, this is merely statement of facts. Right? If you want to be fair, why don't you people talk about your own alma maters and leave the IIT'ians alone? Let's see how good they are.

Wasn't it Mr. Vishwakarma who just a few weeks ago was chastising all NRIs for being uncouth and boorish? See his "Top 10 Bad Habits of the NRIs" in the March section of this Readers Write area. Now he has decided to take on the IIT'ians by making a false allegation that in IIT rote learning is emphasized. He has no proof to offer but he is sticking to his fabricated, venom-filled story.

Mr. Vishwakarma also condemned the entire Indian society in his articles 'Raja Beta', 'Land of Buddha', 'Leaders or Beggars' (this time targeting politicians), and 'Staring at People - India's Pastime'. The only article that I could find in which he didn't directly criticize a particular group is "There ARE Alternative of Government Jobs".

Who is going to be your next victim Mr. Vishwakarma? Are you and your supporters on this forum the only people from India who know everything and are more sophisticated than the rest of us? If that's all you can do - spew venom - against one group or another, I suggest you leave PatnaDaily and let others discuss issues directly related to Bihar. We don't need a bunch of sore losers and whiners in this group. I would go so far as to suggest to PatnaDaily to ban such negative forces that are rubbing off on other otherwise rational contributors like Kaushal ji.

There is nothing more hideous than thinking you are the smartest person on the earth while others are fumbling morons.

I don't know about others but I am up to my ears with these pseudo self-righteous people who are constantly belittling other groups in one form or other. - Vikas Agrawal - Apr. 18, 2006

Mr Vikas Agrawal come on accept it, you did attend the coaching institute in Kota Rajasthan to clear the JEE. Or at least you used Brilliant Tutorials or Agrawal Tutorials. Is this not rote learning? Or are you denying this too? Ever heard of similar tutorials for the SAT exams? Recently the HRD ministry research indicated that over the past 30 years, compared to an average IIT, the government of India spent a fraction of money on University of Roorkee but got many times better quality research. Most IIT graduates do the same job as any other engineering graduate including the donation based private colleges but they don't seem to get out of the Asok syndrome. In the USA, the hype about IITs doesn't exist the way it does back home. So Americans are forced to evaluate people based purely on talents and skills and they end up offering similar salary and job to Indian techies irrespective of the educational institutes they went to. It's hilarious that the IISc, REC, BITS, BARC, BHEL and ISRO guys are not complaining about this article but only the IIT'ians are? I think we have hit a landmine here. - Rajendra Kumar - Apr. 18, 2006

Dear all,

This discussion is going out of control, people have started using derogatory remarks against each other. So I think its better to windup this topic.

What I felt after reading all the comments and article that before writing your comments one need to tell his background whether he/she is IIT'ian or not. What a shame, the way all these educated people are giving comments regarding our own institute and country, I can't believe.

Let me introduce first myself, I'm not an IIT'ian. I've done most of my education from some average University where most of the Indians are studying.

But I am very much proud of IIT, IISc, TIFR and all good research institute of the country. All these institutes are matter of our national pride whether I studied there or not that doesn't make any difference. I do agree that all students who are going for study in these premier institute, they are some of the best brains of India. But that doesn't mean that other chaps who are not able to make to these institution are rubbish, no never. If you watch keenly, most of IITs have more than 50% professors who have not done their education in IIT. So what but now they are shaping the carriers of some best brains of India.

So you can't define a limit that IITians are intelligent and others are not, all these are part of single system. All of us collectively working for improvement of our country, so please don't put a LAXMAN REKHA between IIT'ian and non-IIT'ian...

Regarding winning Nobel prize aptly pointed out by some readers that it's not very rational, that's true up to certain extent, but there is one other major reason and that is: lack of funding. We are lacking in funding for research, government is not providing sufficient fund for research here. You go and see in USA their Air force, Navy and other organisations simply flooding money for research projects. So we need to improve a lot in that area.

Here if you apply for a project, sometimes it takes 6 months to get a reply from organisations like DRDO/DST/ISRO and all. I found one organisation NBHM which is quite efficient in providing research fund.

So my sincere request from all the writers that please don't put derogatory remarks against your own national premier institute and their students.

I too think that author of this article was not very clear what message he wants to convey, and that finally leads to such hot and futile discussion.

Whether you are an IIT'ian or a non-IITian, don't forget your ethics and culture. - Guneshwar Anand, Gandhinagar - Apr. 18, 2006

Rajendra Kumar ji, when I graduated from IIT, there was no coaching institute culture in India. Please don't assume that all those who visit this site are 20 or 30-something like most of you.

You have hit a landmine of what? More weapons to assault IIT'ians? Good luck. - Vikas Agrawal - Apr. 18, 2006

Somji, another silly debate seems to be ending. Educated people ended up snarling, snapping and abusing each other. Was this discussion required? What did you expect out of this discussion? How and who was it supposed to help? What point did we prove and what did we achieve? Could you kindly sum it up for everyone? Having stirred the hornets' nest please do not fall silent now. - Rajesh Chaubey - Apr. 19, 2006

Dear Sirs,

I refer to all as Sirs because referring all great people as friends yielded no results hence I refer them with the title Sir with expectations that they will have some second thoughts about on their venomous comments.

I am not an IIT hater, can anyone prove that??

Nor did I find any article directed at demeaning IIT'ians, but when some learning is imparted out of the money of hard working tax paying public then there is an obligation and moral right of that learned person to a least accept this fact at the outset.

In case IIT'ians feel that they are being targeted then I again apologise from everyone's behalf for any pains caused.

Now the question is to what this article has lead to, what value it has added to this forum or what has been learnt from it?

I believe that one can express his mind in whatever manner he wants but it should be civil.

I have not come across any language or sentence which is uncivil so as to have stirred the emotions of the IIT'ians or those who have felt bad by this article and some comments to it.

One driving example which has been set up by this article is that we Indians will always fight amongst each other if we belong to a particular group which has received some unacceptable comments.

Even in case of reservations for the SC/ST and OBC all the people who do not belong to these categories went on to defend that only the no reservation candidates posses all the skills in the world a person from a backward or downtrodden background is good for nothing.

I will call this a racism in disguise and also is a stark example of the normal Indian mentality, we must respect a human being after all human being is the only animal gifted by the sense of speech and when we open our mouth we spew so much poison that we forget that we are hurting our fellow being.

Same is the case with backward and forward people, people educated at institutes of high repute and institutes of lesser known repute.

What difference does it make? In fact, nothing because at the end of the day just introspect and you will find that nothing has been gained but something has been lost, please search for that.

Mister Vikas Agarwal has time and again in this article has felt that we are targeting the IIT'ians and have life long hatred for them. Can he tell me why and how? Has any non-IIT'ian troubled him in his life? or made his life miserable? Then how can he correlate this article and come to a life long decision that we are IIT haters?

Come on Sirs, leave this aside and focus on what you can contribute to your nation in some way or the other and if you have really done something and feel good about it then there is nothing like that and if you have not done anything then life is ahead of you. You still have miles to go and can do something for our nation.

I am not ranting patriotic rhymes neither I consider myself to be a hardcore patriot but we morally owe something to our fellow men because we have been born and brought up there and there is no one pressing you for something but consider that you owe them something and try doing something for them and if you have accomplished this then I am sure the sense of satisfaction shall overcome all the grief that has been caused to you because of this article and come comments to it.

Thanks - Sanjay Gupta - Apr. 19, 2006

Dear Mr. Gupta:

My first reaction to your last comment was to simply ignore it. Then I saw terms like 'racism' and 'Indians will always fight amongst each other' in your message which led me to respond. This is my last comment on this topic. Others are tired of this and so am I. Feel free to react on it but I will not respond to it anymore.

First your comments (within quotes), then my response.

- "I am not an IIT hater, can anyone prove that??"

I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. I didn't make a false, hateful statement against IIT'ians and graduates from other schools of higher learning. It is you and your pals who started this nonsense. You first prove your allegations with concrete evidences then we will worry about my reactions. Opinions don't make facts.

- "Nor did I find any article directed at demeaning IIT'ians, but when some learning is imparted out of the money of hard working tax paying public then there is an obligation and moral right of that learned person to at least accept this fact at the outset."

Accept what fact at the outset? Sorry, but I am lost here. Are you talking about 'demeaning IIT'ians'? If yes, to many of us your allegations didn't sound like complementary either.

- "In case IIT'ians feel that they are being targeted then I again apologise from everyone's behalf for any pains caused."

Please Mr. Gupta, don't say all the negative things about a particular group and then offer your apologies. If you meant it, you wouldn't have said it in the first place. It's like 'maro, magar pyaar se'.

- "Now the question is to what this article has lead to, what value it has added to this forum or what has been learnt from it?"

It has added nothing to this forum and as far as learning from it is concerned, we are all free to learn something from everything. I learnt that one can accuse someone of anything and when that someone defends the baseless, ulterior allegations, he is showered with lectures, preaching, and philosophical rants. I also learnt that some people automatically assume that others are idiots because they refuse to line their toes with them.

- "I believe that one can express his mind in whatever manner he wants but it should be civil."

We are all civil people to a limit. But the reality is: once that limit is crossed, all bets are off. Example: I come and slap your wife or your mother or your daughter - you will also become uncivil. More example: I say you all have stolen the taxpayer's money to finance your children's education; again, you will also become uncivil. And if you don't - either you are a coward, a physically challenged person, or don't have a brain of your own. Point is, there is a limit to everything.

- "I have not come across any language or sentence which is uncivil so as to have stirred the emotions of the IIT'ians or those who have felt bad by this article and some comments to it."

Mr. Gupta, forget about the literal sentence and words expressed here. We all know what their underlying meanings are. You don't have to add four-letter words at the end of each sentence to be insulting. Neither you have done it nor I have done it but Mr. Vishwakarma's message is loud and clear. This is not the first time he has insulted a particular group of people, he has a history of that - at least on this forum. One writer (I won't mention the name here but you can easily guess it) whose articles I used to enjoy on PatnaDaily was persecuted by some people here because he touched some sensitive issues dealing with history. He was immediately attacked by a group of people even though I genuinely felt he was always driven by sharing knowledge and have discussions in an intellectual manner. I never doubted his intentions for a minute but now he is forced to write only about neutral, non-controversial topics and I for one miss his thought-provoking write-ups. Mr. Vishwakarma's intentions, on the other hand, are quiet different and most people can see through it now.

- "One driving example which has been set up by this article is that we Indians will always fight amongst each other if we belong to a particular group which has received some unacceptable comments."

Again, like Mr. Vishwakarma, you blame all Indians. Can you, for heaven's sake, get away from generalizing and exaggerating your statements for a change? What do you mean by 'we Indians'? Here is a fact for you: this trait of defending oneself is common among people of all color, race, religion, language and country. Whites hurl insults at Blacks, Blacks will react; a Muslim falsely calls another Muslim an agent of America; he will react; an Israeli makes false allegations against another Israeli of becoming a Palestinian supporter, he will react. This is a normal human behavior among all homo sapiens. Any time a false allegation is made against any person or group, reaction is expected. Look around, you will find reactions to something everywhere. This is quite natural. Why do you have to keep injecting morality, Gandhian philosophy, lessons from Panchtantra ki Kahaniyan and Bible and I-am-much-enlightened-than-you are, or I-am-a-bigger-man-than-you philosophy every time someone doesn't agree with you or you run out of valid arguments? Like I said before - spare us the lecture. We know what is right and what is wrong and how we can try to make the country and the world stronger. But if you expect someone to remain quiet after being insulted over and over again (The original author of this article has made it his full time job to insult Indians) then you are sadly mistaken. Someone has to take a stand against someone who thinks he is the God and the rest are idiots.

- "Even in case of reservations for the SC/ST and OBC all the people who do not belong to these categories went on to defend that only the no reservation candidates posses all the skills in the world a person from a backward or downtrodden background is good for nothing."

Another generalization on your part "ALL the people who do not belong to these categories went on to defend..." As for having opinions on reservation is concerned, that's a topic for another discussion, not this one.

- "I will call this a racism in disguise and also is a stark example of the normal Indian mentality, we must respect a human being after all human being is the only animal gifted by the sense of speech and when we open our mouth we spew so much poison that we forget that we are hurting our fellow being."

Here we go again! Calling names. So if someone is opposed to reservation, he is a racist? Racism works both ways Mr. Gupta, in case you are unaware of it. A lower caste person can hate an upper caste person with the same passion as a Ranvir Sena member against a lower caste person. Or do you truly think that's just not possible? Why do you think of only one way traffic? How would you like if I said that anyone who doesn't agree with your thoughts and philosophy becomes an instant racist/bigot/anti-poor/anti-dalits in your mind and that makes YOU a racist? Being open-minded does not mean we have to take BS from others. You say it's 'Normal Indian Mentality'. Normal Indian mentality? If racism was the normal Indian mentality today there won't be any reservation for the SC/ST/OB at all. Are you, like Mr. Vishwakarma, also in the habit of exaggerating everything?

- "Same is the case with backward and forward people, people educated at institutes of high repute and institutes of lesser known repute."

And that's racism? Have you heard of the word 'envy'? Or even 'friendly rivalry'? IIt'ians are very proud of themselves and there is nothing wrong with it. If you are from BIT, then you should be proud of it as well. If one is from P. N. Anglo Academy or Miller High School, he should be equally proud of his own school despite some rivalries from St. Xavier or St. Michaels. What's wrong with that or a little friendly rivalry as long as the two are not killing each others? Rivalries between Mets and Braves, Yankees and Red Sox, Lakers and Celtics (in the '70s and '80s), Duke and Notre Dame, Dawgs and Gators, Nicklaus and Palmer, are legendary in the US. They all feel superior than the others but they are not out on the street with a gun in their hand trying to kill each other. In fact, this is what motivates them to be the best in their fields. Why do you get so riled up about the IIT'ians when they are clearly proud of their background and not trying to hurt anyone? Could it be even remotely possible that a lot of people are simply jealous of them? Could it be..???

- "What difference does it make? In fact, nothing because at the end of the day just introspect and you will find that nothing has been gained but something has been lost, please search for that.

True and that goes for your side as well.

- "Mister Vikas Agarwal has time and again in this article has felt that we are targeting the IIT'ians and have life long hatred for them. Can he tell me why and how? Has any non-IIT'ian troubled him in his life? or made his life miserable? Then how can he correlate this article and come to a life long decision that we are IIT haters?"

Please, let's not go in circle. We have already covered this before. Bring some irrefutable proof of your allegations against IIT'ians then we will resume this debate; your assumptions alone are not enough. What if I ask you if any IIT'ian has ever bothered you in your life that you are so against them? (we both can play the same game Mr. Gupta).

- "Come on Sirs, leave this aside and focus on what you can contribute to your nation in some way or the other and if you have really done something and feel good about it then there is nothing like that and if you have not done anything then life is ahead of you. You still have miles to go and can do something for our nation."

If you really meant what you are saying you would have replaced the word 'you' in the above sentence with 'us', 'we', and 'our'. I would have taken it as an offer for truce if you had said "let's focus on what WE can contribute to OUR nation... and if WE have really done something... etc." You are still maintaining that 'holier-than-thou' attitude as if those who don't agree with you are somehow beneath you. That is enough to irk a lot of people including myself.

- "I am not ranting patriotic rhymes neither I consider myself to be a hardcore patriot but we morally owe something to our fellow men because we have been born and brought up there and there is no one pressing you for something but consider that you owe them something and try doing something for them and if you have accomplished this then I am sure the sense of satisfaction shall overcome all the grief that has been caused to you because of this article and come comments to it."

Not that I disagree with you on this but all I hear is more lectures and sermons. You have this strong sense of superiority complex that is annoying as anything. You start with WE and immediately switch over to YOU. For the last time, we KNOW about a feel-good, one world-one people, moralities and duties with our fellow earth dwellers, save-the-earth, save-the-whale, save-the-rain forest, adopt a child from the Third World for 17 cents a day, politically-correct world concept and all that jazz but you must quit treating us as a student of a pathshala where you are the teacher on the subject of morality and we are the 1st graders who don't understand a thing about life or the world. You and Mr. Vishwakarma assume, and you assume a lot, that others are idiots and then you, as if by some unknown force, are compelled to switch to your non-stop sermon mode as if you are doing the world a big favor by showing how big, magnanimous, open-hearted, lover of mankind you could be but others couldn't.

- "Thanks - Sanjay Gupta"

Thanks and regards to you too. You can have the last word. - Vikas Agrawal - Apr. 20, 2006

What a breath taking critical analysis of my comments by Mr. Vikas Agawral!!

Great !!!

Trust that you had devoted this time to fully understand the intricacies of the comments and then analyse it word by word.

Thanks for your time devotion and also thanks for having been so kind as to have accorded your valuable words to my comments , Mr. AgarwaL.

I would note write anything more because I know it will be of no benefit to you but I have had my say and my message has been received by one and many and has stirred a thought process or atleast has given light to few real and punching realities.

Okay we accept you and your ilk as our heroes and do gooders of mankind and I condemn people like us who have taken liberty to speak out and would shut myself up.

One thing please keep in mind that you are not the deciding authority to allow or not to allow writers to post their articles on PD , it is the Editor who is the authority and if he had found that our comments are laced with derogatory remarks, he would have never allowed it to surface on PD forum.

Atleast whatever we said , may be something did not hold water , was based on pluralistic acceptance and not just one man's rant against a particular faction. - Sanjay Gupta - Apr. 20, 2006

If you raise a prickly point or you stick to an unpopular point of view, which you feel serves a cause or the larger interest of the society, it is understandable. I have done that several times and, at times, found myself in the eye of super-cyclones and tornadoes.

However, this debate seems silly to me as I am unable to fathom what personal provocation led to the birth of the original article. I am equally at a loss to understand that, when no social purpose was being served, what was the point of targeting a group of people without any apparent provocation.

When fishermen catch crabs they do not need to cover the containers as crabs are excellent leg pullers. The crabs at the bottom keep pulling the legs of the ones trying to climb up and escape. So all of them stay in the containers even if they are uncovered.

As I see it, the singular learning point coming out from this debate is that some people, how-so-ever educated they may be, are like the crabs. They have a fixation for legs and love pulling legs. For them life is the constant journey from one set of legs to another. The results are obviously frayed tempers and dirty words. That is what they are looking for. They enjoy the splash they create in the otherwise placid waters of their lives or, in the instant case, of PD. Apart from this I see no reason for pouncing on anyone without provocation. - Rajesh Chaubey - Apr. 20, 2006

I read this article two times. The article was primarily discussing rote-based merit. IIT was mentioned in one paragraph (out of the 10 paragraphs) and that too as just one of the many institutions. Some people spun the gist of this article. I think some of these people have vested interests in the spin. They want to defend rote-based learning as ancient Indian culture and want to call all the OBC/SC/STs as people without any merit and all the so called upper castes as the only people with merit. When you think lowly about the majority of Indians then please remember this, you are a greater danger to the nation than the foreign militants. - Rajesh Sahu, Manchester, UK - Apr. 20, 2006

I have been reading this debate for last few days. Vikas Agarwal is right. You only know how to abuse someone. First you said IIT'ians were rote learners. Then you called Indians racist. Now you are calling them terrorists because they don't agree with you. - Deepak K. Singh - Apr. 21, 2006

Rajesh Jee, I have been writing on the PD forum for a while and so have you, so I feel I owe you an answer. I felt our education system was focusing too much on rote learning and people need to take a second look at it. So I wrote this article. I have written many articles in the past and this article was nothing extraordinary. Sometimes people don't respond to my articles, sometimes they do so vociferously and sometimes they even respond to the responses from the other readers! In the past one of my favorite writers in the PD forum has said that I write mostly about 'Bihar Utthan' and some people have said I write about social issues and I think they are correct. The only vested interest I have in my writings is the social betterment of Bihar in particular and India in general. I write about topics that I feel are important and dear to me personally as well as to the society. I didn't think I stirred anything, whatever you read in this forum was already in peoples mind and it is good that it came out through a peaceful channel like writing. Apart from what has already been pointed out by certain readers, what else have we learnt from this article? I don't really know YET, since learning is a continuous process and sometimes you don't know that you have learnt it till you actually apply it!

I am a supporter of saying what is on your mind (as long as it is legal and civil) rather than hiding it and then suffering from anguish and pain or surprising people at a later date when they least accept it. Communication is the best tool for healthy relationships both personal and professional. Anybody who has been a project manger can confirm the fact that communication is the biggest factor for the success of any project/endeavor; in our case it happens to be rebuilding Bihar. Closing our eyes to the issues will not make them disappear but will make them more potent. We can think of the exercise of pointing out the issues as the discovery phase that needs to happen before the design, development and implementation phases. In case some people feel that my articles are boring then they have the right and the choice to spend their time (and sometimes their company’s time!) wisely and read the articles posted by other folks. My own experience regarding the PD forum has been excellent. I highly appreciate the judgment of the PD editors and their openness to accept the various diverse views and opinions that exist in India while filtering out outright illogical stuff. That being said, I am having another idea in my head so let me start jotting it down! If the PD editors feel that it is not worth publishing then as moderators of this forum I think it is their right to do so. - Som Vishwakarma, USA - Apr. 21, 2006

(Editor's Note: Mr. Vishwakarma's last letter was received by us AFTER we had closed this discussion. We made an exception to our own rule because we thought he was answering to a question raised by one of the posters. Besides, the discussion was prompted by him and we thought it would only be appropriate to have him conclude it as well.

To Mr. Vishwakarma: Please continue to write. No one is banning you or anyone else here. We value your opinions and views and those of others as well. This is the beauty of India. We can debate, argue, even engage in occasional fight but we are still Indians and love India no matter where we live, what language we speak, or what school we have graduated from. It was an extremely passionate discussion although we prefer if everyone keep the tone just a tad bit down. Thanks to everyone.)

Discussion on this topic is now closed.