Prasad ji, we all know, irrespective
of Supreme Court's decision, the
Govt. will implement the caste based
reservation to show its dictatorship
and narrow psyche. It will push its
citizens into new era of ghetto.
But, the game doesn't stop here; the
tastes of easy goings have perpetual
effects. You might have noticed
demand of 80% reservation for
Maharashtrians in all jobs. The same
is going to be echoed by leaders of
other states. In Bihar, there is no
job. What will the reserved
categories do if they be thrown out
from other states, although they
qualified from quota system? It will
be too let to realize the bad taste
of quota system. At this time I wish
an article from you supporting
region based reservations. Being a
son of upper caste majdoor, I have
experienced the pain of quota
system, where rich clans of reserved
categories enjoyed their stipend
money on girlfriends and joined
prestigious institutes easily.
The best way to lead India to
challenge up-to-date generation is
to erase quota system at all.
Strengthen the root by imparting
quality education to all. Empower
the women in society. If base is
strong then future will shine. Now
the million dollar question is who
will take pain of making the
foundation strong as the lenient
method of quota system masked the
mindset of our tainted leaders?
Also I like to know your opinions on
caste based reservations in your
hard published IISER and Nalanda's
World class International
University.
And I am 100% sure, when you observe
80% reserved categories are joining
from other states, your narrow mind
will be triggered with the idea of
implementing 80% reservation for
Bihari students in this World Class
International University. Then this
International University will be
renamed after some politician's
beloved wife. As this institute lies
in Nalanda, then nearby leaders may
raise their voice for 80%
reservations from Nalanda district
and the ghost of quota will play
on!!
The bottom line is, if you want to
kill this ghost then do it now,
otherwise be prepared for the years
of hell to come. - Parshuram -
Apr. 6, 2007
Reservation in education is the
biggest curse in India no matter how
you spin it. It's a legalized fraud
imposed by our self-serving
politicians and nothing, absolutely
nothing, can justify it. What's
wrong in providing poor people,
irrespective of their castes,
financial aids, tuition-free
education? Admission and
examinations should be based on pure
merit.
This topic has been beaten to death
knowing fully well politicians in
India will never, even 1000 years
from now, allow this issue to die.
That's a reality. There is no point
for Dr. Prasad or anyone else for
that matter to justify or spin this
issue anymore or for me to counter
his points. Reservation is here to
stay, forever and forever... Let's
stop this discussion once and for
all! - Rajiv Chandra - Apr. 6,
2007
Could you please explain why you
have shown picture of Honorable
President of India in the beginning
of this thread? If you do not know
his idea or concept of reservation
in proper then you should not do the
cut and paste of his any picture
with your ‘any’ kind of publishing.
By doing that you are trying to
portray as what you are writing is
nothing but President's idea. The
fact, President Kalam hates the
reservation theory you are talking
on this forum. He always wants to
prepare the economically backward
section of the society from ground
zero so that they could rise equal
to any class or section of Indian
Society. Please mind that when
President talks about economically
backward society, he means any CAST
and this is his very simple concept
to distribute economic gain in
overall toward lower level hierarchy
of Indian society and make the
country in whole, grow to be
developed. You should refrain from
trying to distort such Great
President’s ideology. I hope your
Doctor mind understands such legaly
challengeable things.
You have decorated your topic with
Great Dinkar’s 2-liners. Well, the
whole purpose of Dinkar's poems was
to bring immediate socially
backwards out of ‘KupMandukata’, not
just throw few ‘Chara’ on them and
keep them mentally backward just as
they have been for centuries. You
have tried to associate that great
poet’s creation with a Caste-based
reservation DUMB policy.
Also, you are talking about some
sort of ‘Monitoring System’ after
the already disputed reservation
policy is implemented. Dr. Ambedkar
had said almost same thing to then
Nehru government that SC/ST
reservation should be reviewed
frequently and should eliminated
after certain period of time. Well,
even Dr. Ambedkar had visualized
that reservation can not uplift a
backward society until unless you
change their mind set from root. The
SC/ST reservation was supposed to be
end in 10 years but…that’s just a
waste of time to discuss here.
Parshuram is right in saying that
when it will come to reservation for
backward class beyond Mandal, there
are several states where majority of
population has been counted as
backward even though those states
are economically in great shape as
of today. I wonder why you are all
the time writing about bringing IISR
(only) to Bihar with full fledge
reservations leaving so called Upper
Cast people out who are counted RICH
just because of their birth in a
Upper Cast family. True Colour!
With due respect, I would suggest
you that you should not talk your
reservation ideology to the Japanese
folks living around you. They hate
such policies by heart. - Naren
Singh, India/USA - Apr. 6, 2007
I think Supreme Court has not
doubted the Reservation for OBCs as
a tool for affirmative action by
state but definition of OBC itself.
Are ‘Kamma’, ‘Maratha’, ‘Kurmi’,
‘Jaat’ and ‘Yadav’ OBCs? Don’t you
think their presence in OBC list is
diluting the very purpose of
reservation for OBCs? I understand
caste is a reality in India and I do
support reservation for OBCs but if
you are happy with presence of ‘Kamma’,
‘Maratha’, ‘Kurmi’, ‘Jaat’ and
‘Yadav’ in OBC list, I am sure you
won’t mind even ‘Bhumihar’ in OBC
list. I am sure with inclusion of
Brahmin, Bhumihar, Kayastha and
Rajput and other leftover caste in
OBC list, opposition to reservation
will reduce to NIL and there will be
unanimity for this policy even in
public arena on par with unanimity
in Parliament on this issue.
Everybody will support the
reservation for OBCs, nobody will
file PIL in court against
reservation for OBCs and there will
be no stay order, however people
like me will still question, are
‘Bhumihars’ OBCs? Isn’t presence of
Bhumihar in OBC list is diluting the
very purpose of reservation for OBCs?
It is easy to understand why in
attempt to prove that his blood is
‘More Yadav’ than that of Mulayam’s
or Lalu’s ‘Bhaiya’ blood, Sharad
Yadav is recommending the UPA
government to ignore the SC stay
order but he should be ready to face
the irrelevance of his logic once
Mayawati has successfully wooed
‘Brahmins’ to join Schedule Caste
and Nitish Kumar has successfully
wooed ‘Bhumihars’ to join Extremely
Backward Caste. I strongly feel that
Supreme Court had given us
opportunity to review our policy of
Reservation for OBCs as affirmative
action for deprived community, if we
are on right track, if the deprived
are getting the benefits but if we
follow the lines of Sharad Yadav’s
‘More Yadav’ blood and ignore
Supreme Court’s stay order then
trust me every fool can tell you
that yes it is difficult to remove
‘Kamma’ from OBC list but it is very
easy to include ‘Bhumihar’ in OBC
list and then let us be passionate
about reservation policy.
Had Sharad Yadav been honest about
dirty caste practice in Indian
society, he should have spoken
against extension of caste mentality
against Biharis in India. He seeks
vote of Biharis, right? Why he was
silent when Raj Thackeray offered
slap in breakfast, lunch and dinner
to Biharis? I am not mixing two
issues because I strongly believe
that hatred towards Biharis is
nothing but extension of caste
mentality. Regionalism among Indians
is nothing but extension of their
caste mentality exactly the way
caste mentality justified the raping
and killing of scheduled caste
females by OBC in Khairlangi.
Believe it or not the killers in
Khairlangi are entitled for
reservation under OBC quota.
Untouchability practiced towards
‘Dom’ and ‘Chamar’ by ‘Kurmi’,
‘Yadav’ and others was a suitable
and justified criterion for
Scheduled caste entitlement for
reservation but under which criteria
‘Kurmi’ and ‘Yadav’ themselves are
asking for reservation? This is the
question Supreme Court has asked,
either we should answer this in
satisfactory way or be prepared to
see ‘Bhumihar’ included in OBC list,
rest assured they will be more
passionate for the cause of
reservation than Upper Caste leaders
like Sharad Yadav, Chandra Babu
Naidu and Karunanidhi. If these
leaders think that without
explanation just by ganging up they
can push the case of Reservation for
OBCs then they should know that Gang
need more army, more battalion and
Bhumihars are in waiting, do you see
where this thing is leading to? So,
pause and think or else the very
honesty of reservation for OBCs will
become diluted. - Shiv Shankar
Sharma - Apr. 6, 2007
Dharna against the court opinion on
Reservation, seems to be like riot
type situation when Mandal
commission was imposed. Why cant we
think of only one class of people in
the country, why to divide them in
so many classes. The strong need is
to help the poor of any class, caste
or religion. There has been no
significant upgradation in poor
people since our independence and
all political parties are talking of
eradicating the poverty. Is it not a
big joke. What our politicians want
- merit based society for fast
growth of India or reserved India
without merit to lag behind
meritorious countries? There is an
urgent need to revisit Indian
Constitution. - T. S. P. Sinha,
Jamshedpur - Apr. 7, 2007
Thanks to all of you for reading my
article and posting your comments.
But I am sorry to write that your
comments are far away from the main
theme of the article. Of course the
article advocates implementation of
the reservation quota as there is no
alternative at the hand to support
the causes of social justice. Of
course there are many alternatives
in the mind of social thinkers,
public figures and others but not
have been in the ruling principle.
The article deals with outcome of
the caste based census that has been
raised by SC in the stay order. Even
if current figure is available, of
what use will be in deciding 27%
reservation for so called OBC
category? However, this is not the
only point that has been raised by
the esteemed SC. Unfortunately, none
of the commentators got this point
and all of you went on posting with
opposition?
The aim of my article was not to
invite inked collision among anti
and pro reservation supporters
rather I have tried to draw
attention on drawbacks of existing
discrimination tools, and due
modifications in it so that maximum
benefit can be procured to the
needy. So there is need to think and
frame some rules in this direction.
I like to appreciate comments of Sri
Shiva Sharma in this regard.
Lots of logic has been given for
implementation and rejections of
reservation policy and number of
supporter as well as opposing people
have their own ways of thinking. So
such discussion is endless.
The better solution will be that
government should make a national
level survey to find all the caste
groups along with their
socio-economic and educational
status to use caste as the
discrimination tool.
I will like to say to Parshuramjee
that it is not final decision of SC
but an interim decision. An
opportunity has been given to the
government to think over it. I do
not support region based
reservations, however in the many
universities there are certain
percentage of seats reserved for
students from that university or
state. Also I am not a professional
writer to write an article on topic
of your choice. If you have some
idea, please pour your ink for the
same. Hope PD or others will put
your thoughts for us. Regarding your
personal experience that rich clans
of reserved category, I have nothing
to do but will like to fetch your
attention that in the implemented
reservation policy there is very
clear cut filtering process for the
discrimination of creamy layers (if
you mean some thing by rich clans),
and it will be very hard for any
undeserving OBC to pass through it.
Of course everybody likes to make
India shining but do you think it
should shine like moon with patches?
I aspire it should shine without
patches.
Regarding my efforts for IISER it
has nothing to do with the
reservation policy. I am not an
authority to decide if it should be
implemented in IISER or not. To the
best of my knowledge, some
institutes of national importance,
educational institution established
in a tribal area, institutions of
excellence, research institutions,
institutions of national and
strategic importance and minority
educational institutions, etc have
been placed out from the loop of
reservation. So if you have or have
not an IISER in Bihar, reservation
will be decided by policy makers but
it never means we should not effort
to bring an IISER in Bihar. And at
last, you have used the term ghost I
do not understand what you mean bhut
or Preta. Bhut can go away but Preta
has reoccurring modality if not
managed properly!
I appreciate suggestions given by R.
Chandra as an alternative for
reservations and similar things has
been placed by many others since
long but is there any such
provisions made so far? Such
arguments are placed only when issue
of reservation is raised.
Narenjee thanks for comments. Placed
picture is to show the contrast of
initial kick given for a journey to
life. I have not given any theory of
reservation rather have commented on
the population based proportions for
reservation and relevancy of the up
to date information on population of
the OBC for the same. Unfortunately
you escaped the central theme of the
article while commenting. In no
sense it is related to, portraying
or distorting the idea of
reservation of HE president. It's
your own observation and thought.
After all philosophy of different
angles of views can't fail. Also I
do not have any article with thought
of hon'ble President on the
reservation policy. If you have
kindly send me link, it will be
great. What I read in some newspaper
(http://www.winentrance.com/news/President-okays-OBC-Bill.html)
is that hon'ble president okays the
bill.
So far your comment related to Great
Dinkar is concerned I could not
understand your thought about
kupmandukata. However, I like to
place here one great event that
triggered Janakavi Dinkar to issue
warning to elite or ruling classes
of India to mitigate their
shortsightedness. (Whatever I am
placing here is based on memory what
I still remember from lecture of a
Hindi Professor.)
Great Dinkar was a JanaKavi who
raised issue related with Janata but
later the same Janakavi was made
Rashtra Kavi. But the soul of
Janakavi remained illuminated. When
he became a member of the Rajya
Sabha he took a tanga after ending
train journey in Delhi. He was
surprised to see that the horse
pulling the tanga was stronger than
that of others. So he asked tangaman
why his horse was so strong. The
tangaman replied, "Sir, I bought
this horse in very low price because
previous owner was fed up with this
horse. This horse was only eating
green grasses and it was not
possible for him to buy everyday too
much green grass. After buying I
also got fed up in a few days, but
one day I saw a shop of toy glasses
at the Chandani Chowk and when I put
on a glass of green color on myself,
I got everything green. The idea
came in my mind and bought
spectacles with green glasses. Now I
put green
colored spectacle on eyes of the
horse and it eats whatever husk I
give it. In this way my horse became
stronger."
The whole story triggered Dinkar to
write a well known poem 'BHARAT KA
RESHAMINAGAR DILLI'. He completed
that on his way and warned our
policy makers in his poetic tone to
modify their vision. One line from
that I drop here (If I recall
better!)
SUNO... SARA BHARAT VAISA NAHEE
JAISA DILLI KE DARPAN ME DIKHATA HAI
But who cared?
I could not understand your logic
for IISER. Do you mean Bihar should
not demand an IISER because central
government will impose reservation?
Shivshankerjee, I have commented on
caste based discrimination. You are
right in observation that it is time
to rethink and poor and deserving
people from other castes too should
be given reservation or any other
alternative (whatever government if
implements). - Rajkishore Prasad
- Apr. 10, 2007
President Kalam may have okayed the
current reservation ploy of UPA
government but he does not like the
method, this is a well established
fact.
No question about great poet Dinkar
and thanks for adding up his real
life story and so the moral of that
story. You have enforced my view
only by adding Dinkar's saying as
'SARA BHARAT VAISA NAHEE JAISA DILLI
KE DARPAN ME DIKHATA HAI'.
Here is the bottom-line, reservation
has been in India ever since its
independence and has not been able
to create a common good among the
listed beneficiary communities and I
would not be so positive about the
future. The immediate benefit of
this phase of reservation may be -
UPA Government will win one another
term to govern the country. -
Naren Singh, India/USA - Apr. 11,
2007
I am also not very sure if a blanket
reservation based on the caste is a
solution to lift the poorest of the
poor in the nation. It is good to
read the article and the rationale
rebuttals here but it would be even
better if they could also suggest
some ways to give the poorest of the
poor a stake in our national
development.
Right now, the great divide between
haves and have-nots is widening ever
more so and it is just tragic to see
that when some Indians are getting
more and more onto Forbes list and
what not, there are still people in
India who are dying of hunger and
live in abject poverty. It is a
shame that India has not been able
to find a better solution than this
age-old practice of caste based
reservations. Poverty inflicts
people of all castes and so should
the solution encompass an approach
which takes care of all the
unfortunate Indian masses. An upper
caste poor without opportunity is as
sad as a lower caste person without
opportunity.
Sadly, I have no hope that it could
happen. - Ravindra Kumar - Apr.
11, 2007
I am a software engg. I did my engg
from BCE Bhagalpur. I managed to get
admitted there through OBC quota. I
belong from a poor family. My father
was not able to send me to other
state (which most of the so called
unreserved enjoy i mean most). I
managed to get my job without any
reservation.
Did it mean that unreserveds are
better? can anybody answer my this
question?
I want to ask one another question.
Did anybody belonging from so called
forward class ever mentioned a lower
class people by adding Ji to his/her
surname in the human history?
Whereas most of the so called
backward class always add Ji to
surname of a so called forward
class. Then why we should not
provide reservation to people who
respect people?
Caste should be the only criteria
for determination of reservation.
Caste determines fate of a human
being in India (I do not know about
other countries). Please read again
my previous sentence.
At the end I want to say that this
is not only my view but sadly a fact
- Rajesh Kumar - Apr. 12, 2007
Rajesh jee, how could you use OBC
quota to get admission in an
Engineering College? I may be wrong
but I think there has not been any
provision of quota for admissions in
any college so far. Is there any?
The latest phase of reservation bill
has the provision of admissions for
SC/ST/OBCs and it has been blocked
by SC.
As far as your 'Dard Bhari Kahani'
is concerned, my friend, you are not
that poor either to be not able to
get educated up to Higher Secondary
with science. The majority (all
castes) do not have that ability to
get educated up to higher secondary.
Do a survey and you will find almost
60% percent of listed OBC are not
poor, neither are 'mentally'
backward. I have not seen a single
Yadav either poor or so called
backward but they are in OBC list.
There are several other Castes in
South listed as OBC in fact are not
backward or economically poor at
all.
Again, even though around 85%
job/higher education will be
reserved in India, the listed SC/ST
and OBCs will have to be prepared
through Higher Secondary exams. Only
then they would be able to eat the
fruit of 'quota-blessed-career' and
this is the point where drama of
reservation-quota goodwill fails.
So, I wish this time you pro-quota
folks understand my point and divert
little bit of your energy toward
fighting with local governments to
make education mandatory and
minimally charged for every kid at
least from elementary up to
Secondary Board.
So, I will go again saying -
RESERVATION SHOULD ONLY BE GIVEN TO
ECONOMICALLY BACKWARDS, IRRESPECTIVE
OF THEIR CASTE AND RELIGION! THERE
MUST BE LAW TO MAKE EDUCATION
MANDATORY AND MINIMALLY CHARGED TO
ALL KIDS, IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR
CASTE AND RELIGION! - Naren
Singh, India/USA - Apr. 12, 2007
Rajesh ji asked, "Did anybody
belonging from so called forward
class ever mentioned a lower class
people by adding Ji to his/her
surname in the human history?"
Since we are talking about the
'human history', I don't recall
anyone addressing Jagjivan Ram as 'jagjivanwa';
every one called him Jagjivan Babu,
which I think is much more honorable
and respectful than just plain 'ji'.
- Rajiv Chandra - Apr. 12, 2007
Rajesh ji, I also belong to OBC but
I got into IIT and everything on my
own without any reservation. However
before you support reservation, do
you remember that there are people
like you in each and every caste?
All of us need equal opportunity and
it should not be discriminated based
on caste or economics. There should
be scholarships, incentives so that
every one could get the opportunity
to learn and build a career.
I also come from a village and
belong to a poor family but I got
the scholarship from Govt of India
when I appeared in All India
Scholarship Examination for Public
School Education. It was a very good
scheme and all merit based selection
exams for boys/girls in Class 6th
for everyone. Even though I belonged
to a farmer's family I could get the
opportunity to study in a school
like Vikas Vidyalaya. I could have
even opted for school like Doon
School, Scindia School. The choice
was all mine. Unfortunately the
scheme was terminated and all the
funds were supposedly routed to
Navodaya Vidyalaya Scheme. We all
know what happened to such a good
concept. I mean I wonder why not
Govt of India try to streamline such
schemes in an efficient and corrupt
free way. I mean when all the kids
from all kinds, economic sections
are encouraged with this education,
I suppose we would not need this
reservation. At least I did not need
as I was given the opportunity to
fulfill my potential and my limited
talent, ambition is my only
handicap.
Sometime I wonder even the
politicians do not want this issue
to die also as they want to be seen
as messiah for their exclusive
castes. V P Singh made his name on
Mandal even though I believe we OBCs
would have been served in better way
if he had put more focus on
providing good basic education to
all the people. Reservation appears
like an easy and fast solution but
in my limited understanding the path
of least resistance is not always
the best path. - Ravindra Kumar -
Apr. 12, 2007
First I want to say to Mr. Naren
Singh jee that this is not 'my dard
bhari kahani'. I am proud whatever I
was I am and from whichever caste I
belong. You are questioning my
existence itself by asking whether
any reservation of that kind is in
effect or not. - Rajesh Kumar -
Apr. 13, 2007 |
